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2025 Navigation

17K views 35 replies 15 participants last post by  k3cj5555  
#1 ·
Hello Camry 2025+ Lovers.

Simple question: Will built-in Navigation work without subscription? Will it take me from A to B after 3 years of 'trial cloud subscription?
Anybody has experience with 'cloud' navigation and what happens if you do not want to pay?
 
#2 ·
If I understand it correctlyToyota's new navigation will still work after the subscription expires- but you won't get map updatestraffic avoidanceand the voice assistant will no longer work. You'll also lose the ability to use the remote start via the Toyota app.

It's important to know that the new system uses a different subscription plan/prices and features that the older system used. I'm struggling with whether or not to pay for the subscription as my one year free trial expires next month. I really like the virtual assistant- at least the ability to use the "hey Toyotatake me to _" feature that I use daily for work. With that saidToyota's navigation guidance often does not provide a very efficient route. Sometimes it's related to trafficbut often I struggle to find a reason why it takes me down side streets that are slower (and farther) compared to sticking with the main roads.

$15 per month (In the US) doesn't sound like a lot- but that adds up to $180 per year. Toyota offered a discount with their previous infotainment software packages if you paid yearlybut that doesn't seem like it's available with the newer system.
 
#3 ·
If I understand it correctlyToyota's new navigation will still work after the subscription expires- but you won't get map updatestraffic avoidanceand the voice assistant will no longer work.
The most critical thing there IMO is map updates... If You can subscribe for only 1 month and then cancel the subscription each year to update the mapsthat should be enough to get navigation ... Don't know if Toyota allows that.

Obviously my 2003 Camry does not have Navigation built-in. So I bought a Garmin GPS and it came with free lifetime maps updates...
It seems to me Toyota shock provide a way to just buy Map updates when needed... Most people seldom need navigation - only when going to new places or on vacation and roads don't change quickly.

You'll also lose the ability to use the remote start via the Toyota app.
I saw on-line for the last generation without a subscriptionfor remote starton the fob if you push the lock button twice quickly and then press and hold it the 3rd timethe car will autostart. Don't know if that will work with this generation.

- Karen
 
#5 ·
PersonallyI do not need any Toyota 'support'; no need remote startno need to talk to somebodyvoice assistant etc.
As for map updates they are important but if you drive in well developed area nothing changes like ever.
I do have Garmin with lifetime maps update but I do not see any difference from update to update. My Garmin even has voice support - I can navigate by voice but it is not that 'intelligent' and requires looking at screen and saying 'down' 'up' etc. At least 'Go Home' works perfectly :)
And the reason I would like to have in car navigation is I am little bit tired of all those wires (GPSdashcam)hanging over the windshield.
Still I need concrete confirmation from somebody who is using Navi without subscription... I did hear what '98CamryLE' mentioned and I hoping Navi will work properly but no support for mapsvoiceetc.
 
#7 ·
I talked with Toyota about this before ever buying my car. There are no maps stored on your unitthey are all cloud based and you must subscribe continuously at $15 a month to have any GPS service. Why I'm glad I kept my Garmin units with lifetime maps and traffic. Prior to this generationmaps were loaded and then updated whenever Toyota released the updatefor a charge. Apparently people weren't updating often enough for Toyota's likingthus the subscription based service.
 
#8 ·
Apparently people weren't updating often enough for Toyota's likingthus the subscription based service.
If people are logical toyota will make even less money with the subscription than they would have with paid maps updates.

Yes using the built in system is nicer (neater) than using a Garmin (I have one with lifetime maps too - only way I would buy a GPS!)but with the built in system needing a cellular connectionand smartphones being ubiquitouswhy would none pay for a subscription when the could use Android Auto or Apple CarPlay for navigation on the built in screen!

In any case as cell service is not available in all areas I personally would never want to be totally dependent on having cell service for navigation on long trips in rural areas.

- Karen
 
#11 ·
Forcing you to pay for for such basic thing as navigation will turn many customers off of this car/company. When you have to spend CAD$54K for a car you do not expect penny pinching for any additional service. Fk cloud BS.
Plus having constant issues with panoramic roof I see myself less and less toyota owner.
 
#14 ·
Do I understand correctly that subscription or no subscription you do not have navigation unless you have a cell phone (and presumably using a bunch of data you're paying for on the phone)?

Don't have unlimited data on my phone; don't use the navigation on my phone. Other car makers still offer navigation systems. I'd use a Garmin on the dash before I'd pay for a Toyota subscription AND pay for more data on a phone I'd still have to go buy. My Garmin works greathas voice controlcost less when it was new than a one-year subscription from Toyota. HoweverToyota claims that this is the way all the customers want to use their cell phone for this. Odd. I don't hear a lot of people on here supporting that. Oh well.
 
#15 ·
There is subscription based navigation. LE & SE trims are capable. ZSE and XLE trims come with a 1 year subscription.
Drive Connect — includes Cloud Navigation with Google Points of Interest (POI) data,
Intelligent Assistant with HeyToyotaand Destination Assist. Subscription required after trial. 4G network dependent.

Like many thingsthe keysometimesis knowing what to look for.

On my XLEI do not planning on renewing because I find Apple Maps with my phone & CarPlay works better. toyota is not historically known for good navigation software. My son has had Toyota Navigation since 2005 but has always ended up using either Garmin or Apple Maps.
 
#21 ·
AgreeCamryEh! Always entertaining when these companies tell us that we are the only people on the planet who might NOT rather use our own cell phone for navand that we don't want on board GPS receiver. Like you saythat just translates to "Lookie! Another rip-off profit center."
 
#23 ·
The GPS antennas are combined with the cellular antennas in the car. The 2025 Camry has a GPS/Cellular antenna under the dash and another in the sharkfin. The car knows its position and can relay that position to the tower. The tower does not have an accurate position of the cellular device without the device giving the tower that information. A rough position can be determined by signal strength to the towerespecially if multiple towers are receiving the signal. GPS being embedded in cellular devices was a game-changer in search and rescue.
 

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#24 ·
BrandonSE is more correct. ATT & T-Mobile use GSMbut Verizon is CDMA. GSM has NOTHING to do with GPS or with the cell tower knowing its position. Obviously the position of the cell tower is known when they put it up. They don't migrateso the position never changes. You could put the lat/lon on a brass plaque and it would never changeso there is no reason for it to "determine its position."

If your phone did not have GPS it would not know its own position. If your car does not have a GPS receiver it does not know its own positionand the cell tower does not have the ability to identify the position of the phone or the car. By knowing which cell towers can "see" the phonea very rough idea of its general area can be guessedbut not with any degree of accuracy.

Somy original question was this (and the Toyota dealer is still trying to figure out the answer): Some people claim that the car's navigation system does not have a GPS receiver and cannot tell your position unless you have a cell phone with GPS on boardand the car can read that from the phone. (The Apple Play app and Android Auto app may allow the car to access your phone's GPS and use that for navigationbut I don't know.) Other people claim that the car does in fact have its own GPS receiverbut that you can't use the navigation system (based on that GPS) unless you buy the subscription. (Personally I think that is the actual situationbut still trying to get a straight answer.)

This apparently a very illusive subjectsince there are obviously lots of smart people on here and nobody seems to know the answer for sure. And Toyota is apparently very stingy about the information as well. It ain't that tough. Don't know why they can't/won't just tell us how it works.
 
#25 ·
BrandonSE is more correct. ATT & T-Mobile use GSMbut Verizon is CDMA. GSM has NOTHING to do with GPS or with the cell tower knowing its position. Obviously the position of the cell tower is known when they put it up. They don't migrateso the position never changes. You could put the lat/lon on a brass plaque and it would never changeso there is no reason for it to "determine its position."

If your phone did not have GPS it would not know its own position. If your car does not have a GPS receiver it does not know its own positionand the cell tower does not have the ability to identify the position of the phone or the car. By knowing which cell towers can "see" the phonea very rough idea of its general area can be guessedbut not with any degree of accuracy.

Somy original question was this (and the Toyota dealer is still trying to figure out the answer): Some people claim that the car's navigation system does not have a GPS receiver and cannot tell your position unless you have a cell phone with GPS on boardand the car can read that from the phone. (The Apple Play app and Android Auto app may allow the car to access your phone's GPS and use that for navigationbut I don't know.) Other people claim that the car does in fact have its own GPS receiverbut that you can't use the navigation system (based on that GPS) unless you buy the subscription. (Personally I think that is the actual situationbut still trying to get a straight answer.)

This apparently a very illusive subjectsince there are obviously lots of smart people on here and nobody seems to know the answer for sure. And Toyota is apparently very stingy about the information as well. It ain't that tough. Don't know why they can't/won't just tell us how it works.
Verizon discontinued their CDMA network on December 212022.



US Cellular shut down their CDMA network in January 2024 It is mentioned as a footnote in this report. (search for CDMA)

Some GPS receiversincluding most cell phones use A-GPS which uses the cellular network as well as GPS. The vehicle likely does thatbut with its cellular radiosnot your cell phone.
 
#32 ·
Wow. I don't know about having to think about where I'm going ahead of time. Takes all the mystery out of it. :p

It appears you can preload data for a trip if you're going to be out of good service in the Toyotaand it would work like the cell phone. Thing isit just ain't THAT much data. That little $199 Garmin on the dash can do like North America. The only reason they don't do that on the cars is because they want to sell you the subscription I think.