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Mossberg 590 MA legal

A

aLuckyFourteen

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Sep 42012
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I did my research and I think I know the answer but want to be certain. Looking to buy a Mossberg 590 pump action 12 ga. 8+1

590 Retrograde - Retrograde Series - Shotguns - Firearms O.F. Mossberg & Sons

www.mossberg.com www.mossberg.com

Based on the MA law that I’ve readseems like pump action shotguns do not fall under “assault weapons” and therefore aren’t limited to five rounds.

Is this shotgun MA legal? Thank you!
 
Lots of correct conclusions but no correct reasons.

MGL 140 131m makes possession of an AW or a LCFD unlawful. The definition of AW for a shotgun requires that it be semi auto before looking at features so you are correct a pump cannot be an AW.

The issue is the LCFD. The 8 round tube is unambiguously a LCFD as defined in MGL 140 121. If you were to be holding just the tube in your handthat would be a felony as it is clearly a LCFD.

The reason we all sell such shotguns is the definition of LCW. It says pump action guns cannot be LCWs. So if the shotgun is not a LCW how can it have a LCFD? This combination makes the 8+1 ok when part of the pump shotgun but take it off and you have a felony.

So yesthe 590 retro is legal. Just don’t take the tube off…

AW Assault Weapon
LCFD large capacity feeding device
LCW large capacity weapon
 
madmas1208 said:
Dont search the laws...search in the classifieds (dealer) you might actually find what you seek.
Click to expand...
Except the classifieds will also find you the occasional CZ Scorpion pistol or other AWs that people naively think are legal and are proudly providing evidence of their unlawful possession. Knowing the laws yourself is important. There are lots of ignorant sellers including dealers.

Even more on topicmany dealers will sell semi auto shotguns with tubes over 5 rounds. They don’t understand why tubes on pumps over 5 are ok and blindly sell semis over 5. This is a felony for the dealer and buyer.

So buyer beware. Dealers and other sellers selling something is not proof of its lawfulness.
 
Last edited:
CrackPot said:
Lots of correct conclusions but no correct reasons.

MGL 140 131m makes possession of an AW or a LCFD unlawful. The definition of AW for a shotgun requires that it be semi auto before looking at features so you are correct a pump cannot be an AW.

The issue is the LCFD. The 8 round tube is unambiguously a LCFD as defined in MGL 140 121. If you were to be holding just the tube in your handthat would be a felony as it is clearly a LCFD.

The reason we all sell such shotguns is the definition of LCW. It says pump action guns cannot be LCWs. So if the shotgun is not a LCW how can it have a LCFD? This combination makes the 8+1 ok when part of the pump shotgun but take it off and you have a felony.

So yesthe 590 retro is legal. Just don’t take the tube off…

AW Assault Weapon
LCFD large capacity feeding device
LCW large capacity weapon
Click to expand...
Very thoroughthank you.
 
CrackPot said:
The issue is the LCFD. The 8 round tube is unambiguously a LCFD as defined in MGL 140 121. If you were to be holding just the tube in your handthat would be a felony as it is clearly a LCFD.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure fixed tube is considered a LCFD for shotguns(or lever-action rifles for that matter). MGL 140 121 lists explicitly the types of feeding devices covered:
"''Large capacity feeding device''(i) a fixed or detachable magazineboxdrumfeed strip or similar device capable of acceptingor that can be readily converted to acceptmore than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; "
 
Sammy said:
I'm not sure fixed tube is considered a LCFD for shotguns(or lever-action rifles for that matter). MGL 140 121 lists explicitly the types of feeding devices covered:
"''Large capacity feeding device''(i) a fixed or detachable magazineboxdrumfeed strip or similar device capable of acceptingor that can be readily converted to acceptmore than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; "
Click to expand...
You left out “fixed” from your bolding. Fixed blah or similar. It is covered.

Shotguns is five instead of ten. Lever action is discussed in LCW like pump. So you can have greater than the limit for a lever action if fixed to the weaponbut don’t remove the device from the weapon…. 22LR tubes are also exempted from being LCFD.
 
CrackPot said:
You left out “fixed” from your bolding. Fixed blah or similar. It is covered.
Click to expand...
Even if includedwhether fixed or removablethe list of types of devices is fixed: magboxdrumor feed strip. that's it: 4 types. The tube is not on the list
One could argue that "or similar" after the list of types could be construed as "tubular". The similarity is a stretchy word but at a closer looknone of the four types are anywhere near tube! The basic principle of storing cartridges in a stack of all four types is not the same as the tube storage where cartridges are stored in a row.
Incidentallythis is why the 3-gun shotguns with those crazy long extension tubes are still legal. That saidmost common semi-auto shotguns just don't have the dimensions to accommodate more than 5 shells unless you go for the super long barrels/tubes which is not what a CQB self-defense type of gun needs: compact dimensions. The point is: legal or notlarge capacity tubes in a defensive shotgun are not practical.
 
aLuckyFourteen said:
I did my research and I think I know the answer but want to be certain. Looking to buy a Mossberg 590 pump action 12 ga. 8+1

590 Retrograde - Retrograde Series - Shotguns - Firearms O.F. Mossberg & Sons

www.mossberg.com www.mossberg.com

Based on the MA law that I’ve readseems like pump action shotguns do not fall under “assault weapons” and therefore aren’t limited to five rounds.

Is this shotgun MA legal? Thank you!
Click to expand...
The Mossberg JM 930 Pro is a semi-auto 10 round 12ga that is legal to own/sell in MA so I see no problem with that one. I have a letter from the Office of the MA State Police declaring this after a 2-week review by lawyers etc..
 
Ae1m said:
The Mossberg JM 930 Pro is a semi-auto 10 round 12ga that is legal to own/sell in MA so I see no problem with that one. I have a letter from the Office of the MA State Police declaring this after a 2-week review by lawyers etc..
Click to expand...


@Ae1m

That’s interestingwould you mind sharing more details? I’m curious what made you get lawyers involved to review the shotgun and why were the MA State Police involved to declare it was legal or not.

Would you mind posting the letter? Obviously you should redact any personal information if you do decide to post it.
 
Ae1m said:
The Mossberg JM 930 Pro is a semi-auto 10 round 12ga that is legal to own/sell in MA so I see no problem with that one. I have a letter from the Office of the MA State Police declaring this after a 2-week review by lawyers etc..
Click to expand...
Please share. Since over five rounds on a semi auto shotgun is unambiguously a large capacity feeding device on a large capacity weaponI would love to see such a letter.
 
Ae1m said:
The Mossberg JM 930 Pro is a semi-auto 10 round 12ga that is legal to own/sell in MA so I see no problem with that one. I have a letter from the Office of the MA State Police declaring this after a 2-week review by lawyers etc..
Click to expand...
MSP does not have the statutory authority to interpret MGL. I was involved with another issue where an EOPS attorney made a claim about MGL and got called out on it for that exact reason.
 
Ae1m said:
The Mossberg JM 930 Pro is a semi-auto 10 round 12ga that is legal to own/sell in MA so I see no problem with that one. I have a letter from the Office of the MA State Police declaring this after a 2-week review by lawyers etc..
Click to expand...
I will confirm that @Ae1m has such a correspondence from the State Police and it says what he says it does.

Len-2A Training said:
MSP does not have the statutory authority to interpret MGL. I was involved with another issue where an EOPS attorney made a claim about MGL and got called out on it for that exact reason.
Click to expand...
I also concur 100% with this. The State Police (or the lawyers they consult) have no authority to interpret MGL. That is the sole prerogative of the judiciary. DAs will decide who gets charged and the courts get to sort it out.

It might make an interesting defense to have this letter from the State Police should you get charged with a AWB violation (MGL 140 131M possession of a LCFD). Personally it will not change my position to not sell such weapons. The risk is too high. The wrong circumstance and the wrong DA and you end up in a criminal trial. That has no good outcomes.

@Ae1m I appreciate your diligence but it falls to the old maxim of "never ask a cop about the law". Cops go to the academy for time measured in weeks and only part of that time is dedicated to learning the law. Lawyers spend years full time in law school and they still get it wrong. I can count on one hand the lawyers in MA I think actually know MA gun laws and what they mean and I don't need all of my fingers on that hand... 90% of the names recommended here on NES for lawyers I would not bet my life on.
 
I also saw the letter and while I agree with @CrackPotI also see the potential here that it could help someone who potentially gets jammed up and also that we could use it to overturn the laws some day if we ever have a chance.
How can any reasonable person understand the law as written when our own state police interpret it differently. It’s similar to how Maura said that 22’s are exempt from the AWB. While it’s not a good defense by any means it does show how weak and stupid the laws are written and clearly don’t prevent crime.

What can I sayI’m an optimist.

Edited because I’m wrong.
 
Last edited:
Sammy said:
Even if includedwhether fixed or removablethe list of types of devices is fixed: magboxdrumor feed strip. that's it: 4 types. The tube is not on the list
One could argue that "or similar" after the list of types could be construed as "tubular". The similarity is a stretchy word but at a closer looknone of the four types are anywhere near tube! The basic principle of storing cartridges in a stack of all four types is not the same as the tube storage where cartridges are stored in a row.
Incidentallythis is why the 3-gun shotguns with those crazy long extension tubes are still legal. That saidmost common semi-auto shotguns just don't have the dimensions to accommodate more than 5 shells unless you go for the super long barrels/tubes which is not what a CQB self-defense type of gun needs: compact dimensions. The point is: legal or notlarge capacity tubes in a defensive shotgun are not practical.
Click to expand...

Is the tube not the "magazine" with a shotgunhence in the 4 types listed?
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
Is the tube not the "magazine" with a shotgunhence in the 4 types listed?
Click to expand...
I don't think it is but what the hell do I know. A tube is not removable like a magboxdrum or feed strip. The fact that they include the term "or similar" is what screws us over. Who decides what similar means? Now here's one for the hivehow do we feel about a Nordic +2 extension on a 1301 tactical (making 7+1) with a non pistol grip stock? Go or no go?
 

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