Empire Builder discussion 2025

pennyk · Jan 32025

From January 32025 forwardplease post comments discussing the Empire Builder here. For previous posts regarding the Empire Builderplease refer to this threadwhich is currently locked:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/empire-builder-discussion-2023-q4-2024.86223/page-11

ThePun · Jan 42025

First! Lol

We are currently the victims of losing all three Charger engines on the Eastbound EB just East of Fargo and a freight engine just got us rolling around 12pm after being dead since 6am today.

soarbooks · Jan 42025

... Did Amtrak keep you guys warmcomfortableand fed during your LONG delay?

B&Ofan · Jan 122025

It looks like 8/28 scheduled to arrive in Chicago today is delayed.

AmtrakAlertsMechanical Issue: As of 7:04 AM MTTrains 8 and 28 is stopped east of St. Cloud (SCD) due to mechanical issues. The crew is in contact with the mechanical team who are working to resolve the issue. We will provide an update as more information becomes available. Departure estimates are subject to change. If a train is delayed past its scheduled departure timeit may still leave earlier than the updated estimateif conditions allow. To avoid missing your trainplease stay near the boarding area and monitor for announcements or updates.

Does anyone here have any idea on what is happening? My Mom is on the train and at least they seem to have HEP. I ask because some people here sometimes have more information then what the general public.

Thanks in advance.

AmtrakBlue · Jan 122025

B&Ofan said:
It looks like 8/28 scheduled to arrive in Chicago today is delayed.

AmtrakAlertsMechanical Issue: As of 7:04 AM MTTrains 8 and 28 is stopped east of St. Cloud (SCD) due to mechanical issues. The crew is in contact with the mechanical team who are working to resolve the issue. We will provide an update as more information becomes available. Departure estimates are subject to change. If a train is delayed past its scheduled departure timeit may still leave earlier than the updated estimateif conditions allow. To avoid missing your trainplease stay near the boarding area and monitor for announcements or updates.

Does anyone here have any idea on what is happening? My Mom is on the train and at least they seem to have HEP. I ask because some people here sometimes have more information then what the general public.

Thanks in advance.

Your mombeing on the trainwould be your best source of info. She can ask the car attendant or conductor for info.

JohnV · Jan 162025

Wife and I were scheduled to travel from SEA to Chicago 1/20 on #8 (Empire Builder). Received a text last night saying the train was cancelled. Called and was told cancellation occurred as forecast temps could adversely impact the trains air braking system.

John Bobinyec · Jan 162025

JohnV said:
Wife and I were scheduled to travel from SEA to Chicago 1/20 on #8 (Empire Builder). Received a text last night saying the train was cancelled. Called and was told cancellation occurred as forecast temps could adversely impact the trains air braking system.

Gee I wonder what VIA in Canada does differently to keep the trains moving.

jb

west point · Jan 162025

JohnV said:
Called and was told cancellation occurred as forecast temps could adversely impact the trains air braking system.

Have to wonder if that means too much moisture in the air lines? that might lead to a problem in the water separation system (air dryers) of the air compressors. Maybe the standard of minimum air loss does not replace air enough. Another problem may be a consequence of the blended braking system used on trains that causes non replacement of the air in the lines. Not sure what the 2nd high pressure reservoir line is connected to other than the car end doors.

west point · Jan 172025

a weather item I forgot about is high winds. Train 8 / 15 Jan is now 12 hours+ late due in part to high winds east of browning. Now no one can tell where high winds will actually happen so any area thast is forecast for any high winds may need to be forecast. Have to wonder what the wind speed component for tipping of a superliner is. Although they are tallercar carriers are known to have been blown over.

If dispatch has enough warning parking any train on a section of track that will head directly into the wind of course is best. Variable wind directions could mess that all up. So best to not run a train into such conditions.

RalphCT · Jan 182025

west point said:
a weather item I forgot about is high winds. Train 8 / 15 Jan is now 12 hours+ late due in part to high winds east of browning. Now no one can tell where high winds will actually happen so any area thast is forecast for any high winds may need to be forecast. Have to wonder what the wind speed component for tipping of a superliner is. Although they are tallercar carriers are known to have been blown over.

If dispatch has enough warning parking any train on a section of track that will head directly into the wind of course is best. Variable wind directions could mess that all up. So best to not run a train into such conditions.

I live about 60 miles south of Browning MT. The winds at my place on Jan 162025 were averaging in the upper 50 mph range with gusts to 66. Winds north of me are typically higher when we have winds like that. The Montana Department of Transportation (after several semi trucks were blown over on US 89) erected signs in Choteau MT prohibiting semis until the winds subsided. It was indeed a brutal day on the Rocky Mountain Front.

I don't know what Amtrak did this time with 8 (15) but in previous similar events they held the train in or slightly west of East Glacier.

Richard Hill · Jan 182025

My westbound Empire Builder trainthis past summerwas 3 hours late into Montana.
I have to wonder why the Great Northern Empire Builderin the old daysdidn't have such frequent slow-downs and cancellations. Here is one opinion:

https://is.gd/PfGUlE

From the article; "In a nutshellthe Empire Builder is a prime example of the ongoing service decay infecting Amtrak long-distance trains for decades".

railiner · Jan 182025

west point said:
Not sure what the 2nd high pressure reservoir line is connected to other than the car end doors.

Aren’t those end doors all electric powered now?

west point · Jan 182025

west point said:
If dispatch has enough warning parking any train on a section of track that will head directly into the wind of course is best. Variable wind directions could mess that all up. So best to not run a train into such conditions.

I completely forgot about train alignment and superelevation of track. A superliner or even worse an auto carrier is on a right-hand curve going say N. The superelevation is 3 degrees then a south wind pushing against the already leaning cars would tip them at what wind speed? Or an eastbound on a left hand elevated curve going SE with a SW wind what speed wind would blow the cars over?

The legacy trains of NP & GN were single level cars with a probably much lower center of gravity. Blowing them over probably would take a 125 MPH or higher wind. As wellmuch heavier with that lower C of G

trimetbusfan · Feb 72025

7(5) is currently 16+ hours late. No bus transportation is available to short turn the train at Spokaneand as of now (6pm) they are planning to run the train though with massive delay.

8/28 (7) has still not been canceled yet either…

http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/gettrain.pl?seltrain=7&selyear=2025&selmonth=02&selday=05

Edit: adding the status page for 8(7)which currently estimates a 10-hour delayed departure out of SEA.
http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/gettrain.pl?seltrain=8&selyear=2025&selmonth=02&selday=07

oregon pioneer · Feb 82025

trimetbusfan said:
7(5) is currently 16+ hours late. No bus transportation is available to short turn the train at Spokaneand as of now (6pm) they are planning to run the train though with massive delay.

8/28 (7) has still not been canceled yet either…

http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/gettrain.pl?seltrain=7&selyear=2025&selmonth=02&selday=05

Edit: adding the status page for 8(7)which currently estimates a 10-hour delayed departure out of SEA.
http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/gettrain.pl?seltrain=8&selyear=2025&selmonth=02&selday=07

They must have canceled itbecause today (2/8) there is no eastbound #8 showing (in factTrain Status on amtrak dot com says yesterday's #8 was canceled). Today's 8/28 is suffering a "service disruption" and is scheduled to leave from SPKwith a bustitution between PDX/SEA and SPK.

trimetbusfan · Feb 82025

oregon pioneer said:
They must have canceled itbecause today (2/8) there is no eastbound #8 showing (in factTrain Status on amtrak dot com says yesterday's #8 was canceled). Today's 8/28 is suffering a "service disruption" and is scheduled to leave from SPKwith a bustitution between PDX/SEA and SPK.

Yeswas finally canceled around 11 hours after its scheduled departure (3am).

7(05) arrived Seattle shortly after 8am this morning

Rasputin · Feb 92025

The undesirable passenger. Link to an article in the Kalispell Daily Interlake:

https://dailyinterlake.com/news/202...n-libby-pleads-guilty-to-federal-gun-charges/

zephyr17 · Feb 92025

Rasputin said:
The undesirable passenger. Link to an article in the Kalispell Daily Interlake:

https://dailyinterlake.com/news/202...n-libby-pleads-guilty-to-federal-gun-charges/

Boyhe's a charmer.

Richard Hill · Feb 92025

I am bewildered when Amtrak says "we apologize for ANY inconvenience". When the train (28) doesn't departat allon a given day I'll bet it it would be inconvenient. It seems the Empire Builder has a problem with cancellations and with horrible on- time performance regardless of what time of year. Totally unacceptable. If a private passenger train ever were to make a comeback I think the Empire Builder route would be the route it should consider.

Cal · Feb 92025

Richard Hill said:
If a private passenger train ever were to make a comebackI think the Empire Builder route would be the route it should consider.

There is no point to entertain this idea because A) private passenger trains that are used for public transitas Amtrak iswon't come back and B) If they dida route that has a lot of issues like the Builder would probably not be kept.

B&Ofan · Feb 112025

Checking the Amtrak status map I see only 1 eastbound Empire builder and no westbound trains. I am supposed to be on that train later this monthI hope they get things cleared up by then.

Bonser · Feb 112025

B&Ofan said:
Checking the Amtrak status map I see only 1 eastbound Empire builder and no westbound trains. I am supposed to be on that train later this monthI hope they get things cleared up by then.

So do I. I'm on it in March.

DaveW · Feb 122025

What is going on with the ticket pricing? I am looking to go from St. Paul to Everett in next couple months. I was checking days of the week and weeks in advance. On some days I could get to Everett cheaper going to Portland and then catch the Cascades to head north. I would be tempted to do it except there is only a 3 hour layover in Portland.

amtrakp42 · Feb 122025

Richard Hill said:
I am bewildered when Amtrak says "we apologize for ANY inconvenience". When the train (28) doesn't departat allon a given day I'll bet it it would be inconvenient. It seems the Empire Builder has a problem with cancellations and with horrible on- time performance regardless of what time of year. Totally unacceptable. If a private passenger train ever were to make a comeback I think the Empire Builder route would be the route it should consider.

Well the private lines would still have to used same railsso still deal with freight railroads.

west point · Feb 122025

It appears that BNSF is saying it will be loco short due to having to add more locos and / or shorting train lengths. That allows BNSF to maintain brake line pressure in the low temperatures. The shortages of locos IMO would mean to Amtrak BNSF inability to rescue a broken down EB. Best to cancel the EBs in that case?

Siegmund · Feb 132025

DaveW said:
What is going on with the ticket pricing? I am looking to go from St. Paul to Everett in next couple months. I was checking days of the week and weeks in advance. On some days I could get to Everett cheaper going to Portland and then catch the Cascades to head north. I would be tempted to do it except there is only a 3 hour layover in Portland.

In the wintertimethe Seattle section runs with only one coachand sells out between Seattle and Wenatchee. The Portland sectionlacking a baggage caralways has two coaches (one for handicapped accessone for checked baggage)even though there usually aren't enough passengers to fill one.

BlackDiamond · Feb 142025

Siegmund said:
The Portland sectionlacking a baggage caralways has two coaches (one for handicapped accessone for checked baggage)even though there usually aren't enough passengers to fill one.

Seems that a coach-baggage "combine" would be ideal for thisand for other similar trains such as 448/449 (Boston section of the LSL) where there wouldn't be enough baggage to justify a full baggage car.

zephyr17 · Feb 142025

BlackDiamond said:
Seems that a coach-baggage "combine" would be ideal for thisand for other similar trains such as 448/449 (Boston section of the LSL) where there wouldn't be enough baggage to justify a full baggage car.

That is exactly what is on 27/28. A coach/baggagethe Superliner equivalent of a combine. The upstairs is normal Superliner seating but what would be the downstairs seating area is replaced by a secure baggage compartment.

A standard Superliner coach is required in addition to the coach/bag because the coach/bag has no downstairs seating to accommodate mobility impaired passengers.

Rasputin · Feb 162025

Link to BNSF Grizzly Bear Conservation plan on Empire Builder route. Reduction in train speed not proposed:

https://flatheadbeacon.com/2025/02/...on-plan-to-offset-train-killed-grizzly-bears/

Rasputin · Feb 172025

It appears that 7/27(17) have been cancelled. Corrections or additional information would be welcome.

Empire Builder discussion 2025

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