How to stop runaway fire/chimney fire

Tahoe · Feb 152020

Hi everyone

I just read Jay's thread about his chimney fire/runaway fire. As we inch closer to delivery of our stoveI'm trying to prepare for potential emergencies. Obviouslyprevention is the keyand I'll plan to burn dry woodhave a professional and certified installationfollow all recommendations in the manualkeep the chimney well sweptfire extinguisher in the roometc. I've searched online and recommendations are all over the map. Open vs closed doorswater vs no waterbaking sodasandetc.

Stillif I do get a runaway firewhat is the best course of action? Bypass the Cat? Is there a super-secret way to obstruct the secondary air intake?

If its a chimney firesame course of action? Bypass the cat? Damper fully closed?

Are the Chimfex sticks any good in a stove that has the secondary air intake (Woodstock Progress Hybrid).

Is there already a dedicated thread to this?

Thanks everyone,
Adam

Woody Stover · Feb 152020

Lotta threads on runaway stovesbut they don't apply to a cat stoveand I don't think to a hybrid either. I think all you do is close the air and the fire goes out.

Tahoe · Feb 152020

Woody Stover said:
Lotta threads on runaway stovesbut they don't apply to a cat stoveand I don't think to a hybrid either. I think all you do is close the air and the fire goes out.

I thought you can't close the air supply off entirely in a hybrid?

bholler · Feb 152020

Woody Stover said:
Lotta threads on runaway stovesbut they don't apply to a cat stoveand I don't think to a hybrid either. I think all you do is close the air and the fire goes out.

There are plenty of cat stoves that can have problems with overfireing.

bholler · Feb 152020

Tahoe said:
Hi everyone

I just read Jay's thread about his chimney fire/runaway fire. As we inch closer to delivery of our stoveI'm trying to prepare for potential emergencies. Obviouslyprevention is the keyand I'll plan to burn dry woodhave a professional and certified installationfollow all recommendations in the manualkeep the chimney well sweptfire extinguisher in the roometc. I've searched online and recommendations are all over the map. Open vs closed doorswater vs no waterbaking sodasandetc.

Stillif I do get a runaway firewhat is the best course of action? Bypass the Cat? Is there a super-secret way to obstruct the secondary air intake?

If its a chimney firesame course of action? Bypass the cat? Damper fully closed?

Are the Chimfex sticks any good in a stove that has the secondary air intake (Woodstock Progress Hybrid).

Is there already a dedicated thread to this?

Thanks everyone,
Adam

For an overfire in your case bypass the cat and open the door. This will flood the stove with cool fresh air lowering the temp quickly. For a chimney fire close the air down call the fire Dept. And if need be empty the fire extinguisher into the stove. Do not use water sand or anything the chimfex sticks may work or may not

Tahoe · Feb 162020

bholler said:
For an overfire in your case bypass the cat and open the door. This will flood the stove with cool fresh air lowering the temp quickly. For a chimney fire close the air down call the fire Dept. And if need be empty the fire extinguisher into the stove. Do not use water sand or anything the chimfex sticks may work or may not

Thank you much!

mark cline · Feb 162020

I just saw an old episode of Yukon Men and there was a house that had an active chimney fire going. A local man took a full roll of paper towels and soaked it full of water then threw it into the stove then shuts the door it worked . He had a note of caution that when you open the door you could have a flash fire as air rushes in . Not what I would recommend but in a panic it’s another possible solution instead of letting the house burn down .

Woody Stover · Feb 162020

Tahoe said:
I thought you can't close the air supply off entirely in a hybrid?

You can have a runaway in a secondary stove if you get too much wood gassing. Since the PH does have secondary burnit might be a good idea to have a way ahead of time to block the secondary air intake if needed. I'm guessing runaway secondary might be less likely to happen in the PH though. I think the air might cut lower than a straight secondary stovesince there's a cat to clean up a smoldering burn. I'm not surejust guessing here. Nowif you load the stove fulllight it and let it burn wide open to where the whole load is gassing heavilyyou might not be able to quickly snuff it by cutting the airI don't know.

bholler said:
There are plenty of cat stoves that can have problems with overfireing.

He asked about a runaway fire. Have you ever seen a runaway fire in a cat stove?
Only cat stoves I've run are a DutchwestWoodstock Keystone and Fireviewand the Buck 91; All cats where you had no flame in the box when the air was cutso no runaway fires.
But since you mentioned overfiring...what were the "plenty of cat stoves" that had problems with an overfire? What overfired..stove top too hotglowing stove partsor what. Were the overfiring cat stoves on chimneys not within draft specsor what happened?

moresnow · Feb 162020

Woody Stover said:
Were the overfiring cat stoves on chimneys not within draft specsor what happened?

Compromised loading door gaskets can cause trouble in any stove. Just something to consider.

mar13 · Feb 162020

mark cline said:
I just saw an old episode of Yukon Men and there was a house that had an active chimney fire going. A local man took a full roll of paper towels and soaked it full of water then threw it into the stove then shuts the door it worked . He had a note of caution that when you open the door you could have a flash fire as air rushes in . Not what I would recommend but in a panic it’s another possible solution instead of letting the house burn down .

A friend who volunteers with the local fire Dept says they throw wet newspaper into the stove.

thunderhead · Feb 162020

If you have an OAK could you run outside and smother the inlet with say... wrapped tin foil? Or would the stove still get enough air from little leaks?

spudman99 · Feb 172020

When I had a small chimney fire 2 years agoI threw glasses of water onto the fire in my traditional fireplace that was blazing hot. Immediate steam up the chimney doused the fire effectively. Took 2 glasses or about 32 oz to set it down. Still called the Fire department as a pre-caution. Hated to bother the Volunteers during March madness but they are just super good folks. We can never thank your volunteer firefighters enough - most are unpaid.

Just my experience as all fires are unique.

mark cline · Feb 172020

Glasses of water I think would cause it to flash steam and blow back out. Wet paper towels or wet newspapers would steam less at the beginningallowing you to get the door closed.

TradEddie · Feb 172020

I think people need to be clear about the two very different scenarios in the subject line. A chimney fire is potentially a life and property threatening situation. A runaway stove should not be a life threatening situation in a correctly installed modern stove.

A runaway stove is a visually scary situation and the best and easiest remedy (opening stove door) is not for the faint of heart. There should be no reason to risk personal injury to stop a runaway stove. Personally I've tried two of the options suggested above (door openingmodifying inlet to allow full closure of secondary air) and shutting off air is a veryvery slow solution.

A chimney fire on the other hand is far more seriousand for somethe risk of injury may be justified. I will leave recommended actions to the expertsbut heed the advice of those who caution against throwing water into a raging stove. A 900F stove is very different to an open fireplace.

TE

Dieselhead · Feb 182020

Water turns to steam with a 1700:1 ratio. It will do a good job of snuffing out a chimney fire if done correctly. A option I have not seen posted is using a ABC Dry Chem extinguisher. I’d open your bypass (if applicable) crack the door and shoot the dry chem into the stove. Not full blast but enough to snuff the fire. The draft will carry the powder up the chimney working on the chimney fire as well. CO2 is a betterless mess option but those may be hard to find at your local hardware store.

bholler · Feb 182020

Dieselhead said:
Water turns to steam with a 1700:1 ratio. It will do a good job of snuffing out a chimney fire if done correctly. A option I have not seen posted is using a ABC Dry Chem extinguisher. I’d open your bypass (if applicable) crack the door and shoot the dry chem into the stove. Not full blast but enough to snuff the fire. The draft will carry the powder up the chimney working on the chimney fire as well. CO2 is a betterless mess option but those may be hard to find at your local hardware store.

Co2 won't work it will just put it out temporarily. There will probably be enough heat left there to reignite any remaining fuel in the chimney ice the co2 clears which doesn't take long in a chimney. Use a dry chemical extinguisher and empty it.

firefighterjake · Feb 182020

CO2 is also not rated for Class A fires.

Never had a chimney fire in my own home where I had to kill the fire . . . mainly because I am a huge believer in prevention (heckit's what I do for a living -- teaching fire prevention). Burn seasoned wood. Check and maintain the chimney. Burn at the proper temps . . . do this and you should never have an issue.

If for some odd reason you have a chimney fire AND want to kill the fire I've subscribed to the philosophy of either using a cup or two of waterwet newspaper or ABC dry chemical extinguisher on the hot coals to quickly snuff out the fire AND calling the local fire department.

Trust me . . . the local fire department would rather be calledshow up and discover the fire is out (figure maybe a half hour or so of time tops) than to not call 911you think you have the fire put out and in fact hours later awaken to the smell of smoke in the home when you discover the fire was still burning in the chimney or had caught some nearby wooden framing on fire (now the fire department will be there a lot longer than half an hour).

TradEddie · Feb 242020

Dieselhead said:
Water turns to steam with a 1700:1 ratio. It will do a good job of snuffing out a chimney fire if done correctly

Surebut what is the "correct"way i.e. safeeffective and non-damaging to stove? I've been just feet away when someone threw a cup of water on a grease fireand while I realize that's a different situationI would be reluctant to throw water on anything hotter or more enclosed than a campfire.

TE

bholler · Feb 242020

TradEddie said:
Surebut what is the "correct"way i.e. safeeffective and non-damaging to stove? I've been just feet away when someone threw a cup of water on a grease fireand while I realize that's a different situationI would be reluctant to throw water on anything hotter or more enclosed than a campfire.

TE

Yes there is just to much risk adding water

Woodfire2019 · Feb 242020

My apologies if this is a stupid questionbut what a runaway fire actually look like?

Woody Stover · Feb 242020

Woodfire2019 said:
My apologies if this is a stupid questionbut what a runaway fire actually look like?

What stove do you have? (You can click your user name in the black stripe above and add it to your signature...you'll get more responses to your questions from others with the same stove.)
If you have a secondary-burn stove AKA non-cat and get too much wood burning on a fresh loadthe secondary will be robust and get even more wood burning. If your stove doesn't have good air controlyou can't stop it at that point and stove temp climbs too high. The fire has "run away." As others have saidthat's different than a chimney firewhich happens when you ignite creosote deposits in your chimney.

Woodfire2019 · Feb 242020

Woody Stover said:
What stove do you have? (You can click your user name in the black stripe above and add it to your signature...you'll get more responses to your questions from others with the same stove.)
If you have a secondary-burn stove AKA non-cat and get too much wood burning on a fresh loadthe secondary will be robust and get even more wood burning. If your stove doesn't have good air controlyou can't stop it at that point and stove temp climbs too high. The fire has "run away." As others have saidthat's different than a chimney firewhich happens when you ignite creosote deposits in your chimney.

It is MF Fire Nova. It is a catalytic stove. Haven't seen this beforebut maybe because it is a catalytic stove.

Woody Stover · Feb 242020

Woodfire2019 said:
It is MF Fire Nova. It is a catalytic stove. Haven't seen this beforebut maybe because it is a catalytic stove.

Right. Catalytic stoves let you cut the air lowersince the cat will clean up a smoldering fire. To meet emission regsnon-cats won't let you close the air as far since that would kill the secondary and result in a dirty burn.

bholler · Feb 242020

Woody Stover said:
What stove do you have? (You can click your user name in the black stripe above and add it to your signature...you'll get more responses to your questions from others with the same stove.)
If you have a secondary-burn stove AKA non-cat and get too much wood burning on a fresh loadthe secondary will be robust and get even more wood burning. If your stove doesn't have good air controlyou can't stop it at that point and stove temp climbs too high. The fire has "run away." As others have saidthat's different than a chimney firewhich happens when you ignite creosote deposits in your chimney.

It isn't really about the air control on the stove. It is almost always due to excessive draft or bad gaskets etc. If everything is in good working order and your draft is within spec the stove should be controlable. If there is to much draft even cat stoves can overfire. And they can really overfire.

Woody Stover · Feb 242020

bholler said:
It isn't really about the air control on the stove. It is almost always due to excessive draft or bad gaskets etc. If everything is in good working order and your draft is within spec the stove should be controlable. If there is to much draft even cat stoves can overfire. And they can really overfire.

This T5 I got my SILsucks like a black hole on only 15' of stack. I doubt the chimney is producing excessive draftalthough I haven't actually measured it. All I know is that the same chimneywith the Dutchwest 2460 cat stove on itI could slow the burn way down by closing the air all the way.
My other SIL has a used Woodstock Fireview on 21' of stackso I assume it has fairly strong draft. Even though the stove has some air leaksand it's an easy breather to begin withyou can still kill the burn if you cut the air.
Door gasket is good on the T5 and the ash dump isn't leaking. They just let a lot of air into the box of this stoveby design.
You have to load the stove right (load dense woods like White OakHickory or BL that won't gas too fastin the right places in the box,) and you really need to stay on top of the startup. cutting air so you don't get too much wood burningif you hope to keep it under 700. You can't reel the burn back in if you get too much wood gassingeven if you close the air and flue damper all the way. I put in a second flue damperand that helps a little...on just 15'!

She's been burning small loads4-6 splitsall winter since it's been mild. The stove really can't get away from her with a small load like that.
I don't think there's any way a novice burner would keep the stove under 800 on a full load. But maybe with the wet wood that novices generally burnit's not a problem. ;lol

But yeahmaybe the other stoves you've seen have better air control in most casesand the PE Spectrums are outliers.
With some of the new 2020 stovesif they rely on giving it more air at the minimum setting so it can run cleanerI'd think a runaway is even more likely. If they stick a cat in theremaybe they can leave the minimum setting as it was instead of opening it up moreand the burn is more controllable..?

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